Truth Seeker - Jesus' Prehuman Existence

Jesus had a pre-human existence

(Counter argument for Michael being Jesus - edit: 2010.07.31 at end of page)

John 8:58, . . .said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am. (ASV)

Micah 5:2, "Thou, therefore, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though, little, to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee, shall Mine come forth, to be ruler in Israel,— whose comings forth, have been from of old, from the days of age-past time. (Rotherham)

Who was the heavenly Christ before he came to earth?

There is no single scripture that identifies 100% what exactly Jesus' heavenly identity was and is. However, there are enough scriptures that give clues strong enough to satisfy most people's demand for an answer. The LDS or Mormon church may not agree with the conclusion stated since they make a different claim. I do not know if the conclusion reached is objectionable to other churches.

Let me present the circumstantial evidence.

A. We know from 1 Thess 4:16 that Christ is an archangel.

(Webster) "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first."

The only other archangel mentioned in the Bible is found at Jude 9. Here we read:

(Webster) "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

The fact is that Paul gives a powerful reason for associating that archangel with Jesus whom he also says speaks with an archangel's voice. (Quoted above) In 1 Cor 10:1-4, Paul associates Jesus directly with the angel that represented God to the Israelites in their exodus. Verse four demonstrates this without doubt:

And, all, drank, the same spiritual drink,—for they continued to drink of the spiritual rock that followed them, and, the rock, was the Christ. (Rotherham)

Warning: Be aware that in Jude 9 , the reference to Lord is to God not to Christ since this is referring to an event before Jesus was addressed as Lord.

Since Christians are taught that Christ is God's firstborn and only begotten son before he was sent to earth, it is no surprise that he would be the supreme angel over all other angels--the archangel. This would especially be expected because the scriptures tell Christians that all things came into being through and for Jesus Christ.

B. This argument is strengthened by the following:
Daniel 12:1 clearly refers to Michael the archangel of Jude 9.

Dan 12:1,2 reads, "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. (Webster)

When is this taking place? There is no mistaking when this is. The "time of trouble such as never was" is obviously the "great tribulation" mentioned in the gospels. The next reference is to the resurrection. All of this points to activity that Christians expect Jesus Christ to be involved in.

Christians only have one great prince that stands for them -- Jesus Christ -- who is the only way to God, through whom forgiveness of sin is obtained. Revelation shows this Jesus coming in royal power, standing up to do away with this evil system of things and standing up to save his people.

C. One final scriptural point supports the above: (Webster)

Rev 12: 7-10, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out upon the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night. "

Rev 17:14, "These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings; and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful."

Here Jesus Christ battles and conquers. Assuredly, Jesus battles the Dragon as he also battles that one's armies. This Michael also does. So, is it then possible to conclude that Michael the archangel and Jesus Christ the archangel are one and the same person? We are told that the Lamb fights and conquers, and Michael fights and conquers, but the conclusion is up to you.

It should be noticed, however, that nowhere does the Bible state categorically that Jesus the archangel and Michael the archangel are the same.

Some may object to Jesus being called an archangel, just remember who called him that! The Bible did! An archangel is no mere angel, and Jesus is no mere angel; he is uniquely God's son, the Logos, the Divine Expression.

Counter argument:
(10.07.31) I just found a scripture that contains a counter argument to Jesus being Michael. This must be included in the interest of impartial truth.

In Daniel 10:5, this is found:

5 I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, a man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with pure gold of Uphaz: 6 his body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as flaming torches, and his arms and his feet like unto burnished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude. (ASV)

When this is checked with other occurrences of such a person with these attributes, this seems to refer to one person only -- namely, Jesus. (Rev 1:14, 2:18, Rev 1:15, 19:12, Matt 7:2)(to other angels Eze 1:14, Eze 1:7) While we find some of the attributes in other angels mentioned, the fiery eyes are only found in Jesus' case. While this single attribute may also refer to the other angels and simply just haven't been mentioned is a possibility that is not cleared up by scripture.

However, when we read Dan 10:13, it is obvious that this person whom probability permits to be Jesus is speaking about Michael as another person. This puts doubt in the interpretation that Michael and Jesus is one and same. A second point not favoring Michael as Jesus is the statement that Michael is "one of the chief princes." If Michael is Jesus, he should be the highest chief (shouldn't he?!) not just one of the chief princes.

All that this does is putting doubt where before there seemed to be certainty. So by reason of the above I now relish in being able to say with certainty that the identity of Michael is in no way assured and is as far as I am concerned uncertain. As long, as this is what the scriptures teach 100%, my goal is achieved — namely, that of understanding what God tells us in his Holy Word. If others find things that can unhinge my uncertainty, please let me know.